<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1323</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/7/99 1:37:00 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, November 7 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1323<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re Imperial Constitutional Government<BR>
Re: politics & universities<BR>
Re: Food Sources<BR>
Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive...<BR>
Re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re:Whose Imperium??? (was Re: Joseph Dietrich's Imperium)<BR>
re: Oynprith<BR>
Re: Vs: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
Re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
Re: politics <BR>
Re: Interactive fiction<BR>
Re: Evolution (was ...and the drifting generation ship)<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
Re: politics <BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
re Wild Blue Claims<BR>
Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller<BR>
Hydroponics/Acquculture (was Re: Food Sources)<BR>
Re: re Wild Blue Claims<BR>
Academic Adventure Seeds (was Re: Wild Blue Claims)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 17:14:12 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re Imperial Constitutional Government<BR>
<BR>
At 5:09 -0500 5/11/99, "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
>I like this, and nothing in GDW-Canon contravenes this. IIRC, doesn;t M0<BR>
>include some "Framing Documents"??<BR>
<BR>
p83 Milieu 0<BR>
<BR>
'The Warrant of Restoration' - effectively the text of the <BR>
constitution for the Imperium. It is the terms under which Cleon <BR>
restored  the Ziru Sirka and the Rule of Man to form the Third <BR>
Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
It was written by one of the TMLrs - can't remember who though -<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:53:38 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: politics & universities<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 01:39:39 -0500<BR>
> From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
> <BR>
> Hmm... The imperium stays at the same tech level for millennia. The<BR>
> Solomani jump 3 (?) levels in a short war, then they get entrenched in<BR>
> the same type of imperial government and we are at the same tech level for<BR>
> a couple more millennia. I think politics is so pervasive in the 3I that<BR>
> no real scientific research can get done.<BR>
> <BR>
> Since all true states are evolving towards the Feudal Technocracy though,<BR>
> I don't think we really have to worry about this...<BR>
<BR>
I know this was intended humorously, but in fact a feudal technocracy<BR>
might well be the worst environment for basic research.  If your power<BR>
comes from control of a resource or technology, then anything that changes<BR>
the basic ecomnomics behind that resource or technology is a potential<BR>
Very Bad Thing.  There would be a strong tendency not to rock the boat,<BR>
and to suprress anyone who threatened to do so.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net<BR>
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html<BR>
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them<BR>
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:07:17 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Food Sources<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 11/7/99 1:25 AM, Leonard Erickson at<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Guinea pigs are a food animal in South America (especially Peru). And<BR>
> they've been proposed for space colnies.<BR>
<BR>
Yes they are, but my family used to raise them for research and they are not<BR>
very meaty. But they multiply quickly. Probably taste like chicken.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:43:19 -0600<BR>
From: "Kurtis Rodgers" <kurtis@fastlane.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Well, its not just Netscape - I looked at it with IE5 and I get the same<BR>
binary-as-ascii on the T5 page that the Netscape folks are seeing.  Somehow,<BR>
a graphics file is being spewed out as text - that's quite a trick!  : P<BR>
Then there are all the broken or crossed links.<BR>
<BR>
Should be cool when its done, but its obviously not all there yet.  : )<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 11:31:09 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive...<BR>
<BR>
The Roc sayeth:<BR>
 <BR>
> > > [Please, don't direct any flames my way for buying such a controversial<BR>
> > > product. The historical value was too great for me to pass up.]<BR>
> ><BR>
> > OK, now I'm even more confused, why is it controversial.<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> I think it's controversial because it's not a favourite game system (like<BR>
> Microsoft) with many Travellers?  Am I correct in these assumptions or are<BR>
> they a vocal minority?  Just asking ;^)<BR>
> <BR>
> -- The Roc<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Would be a not so vocal minority...everyone rags on D&D sometime, but<BR>
lordy, it's what I cut my RPG'ing teeth on many years ago, and it<BR>
definitely has a fond spot in my heart. I've played it longer than I've<BR>
played traveller, and wouldn't turn down a _good_* game today.<BR>
<BR>
*good, of course, as long as it's set in my own hand-crafted universe,<BR>
with my own hand-crafted rules...we started playing a looooong time ago.<BR>
<BR>
There are a _bunch_ of puzzles the players never did figure out.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, The Roc wrote:<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 14:01:46 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/6/99 10:38:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< You seem to have quite an axe to grind on this point. >><BR>
<BR>
I do. My undergrad degree was in American and European History, I wanted it <BR>
in military history, but couldn't find a program. As an example, my Civil War <BR>
specialist in my history department (Yale, Ph.D.) taught her lower division <BR>
US history classes without mentioning the war at all, except in political <BR>
terms. Who's Grant, Lee, Sherman, Jackson? Her thesis was on Women's history <BR>
during the middle half of the 19th. century (hence her being the ACW <BR>
department specialist). My English history specialist (Johns Hopkins, Ph.D.) <BR>
wrote his dissertation on manners of the "gentle class" during the 18th <BR>
century. He knew nothing of English military history during the period <BR>
despite RN officers being of the class he studied. <BR>
<BR>
I HATE the whole social history movement. While I think it's very important <BR>
to study the "little man/woman" to get the whole picture of history, I reject <BR>
the notion that one shouldn't study the movers and shakers (i.e., the rulers, <BR>
leaders, etc.). This is just 1960s backlash against the "establishment". The <BR>
problem with social history, is that until democracy, the little man/woman <BR>
didn't DO a whole hell of a lot. It's more interesting to study the leaders.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: Imagine studying the 3I by studying how the lives of groat farmers <BR>
are effected by the civil wars, and NOT studying the barracks emperors.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:03:06 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
Part of the problem with confirming kills in the Gulf War was that we<BR>
never actually occupied much of the territory we were bombing. Positive<BR>
confirmation of equipment kills like that is on-the-ground confirmation.  <BR>
<BR>
(as a scud launcher and an ordinary supply truck could look remarkably<BR>
similar when blown to bits and viewed via aerial or sat recon)<BR>
<BR>
'not confirmed' <> 'didn't do it', not hardly. We did nail scud launchers,<BR>
and we did keep the remaining ones on the run, hampering his ability to<BR>
launch them, particularly after we nailed his remote radar sites.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson <BR>
University of Arizona <BR>
College of Pharmacy Information<BR>
Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >Actually, that's more due to TL differences. With the tech the Iraqis<BR>
> >had, they *were* camoflauged and/or "behind cover".<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Imagine their shock when it became clear that as far as *our* gear was<BR>
> >concerned, they had neither.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Interestingly enough, as impressive as coalition air power was, last I heard<BR>
> there wasn't a single confirmed kill of an actual scud missile launcher.<BR>
> Seems that the Iraqis were *really* fond of decoys, and they kept their scud<BR>
> launchers in motion at all times.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 17:32:57 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re:Whose Imperium??? (was Re: Joseph Dietrich's Imperium)<BR>
<BR>
At 14:45 -0500 5/11/99,  "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In brief, it's space opera/science fantasy pure and simple, with a huge<BR>
>dose of Fading Suns-style neogothicisim, using the Imperium as a backdrop.<BR>
>Originally it was going to be set in the Rebellion era, but it's starting<BR>
>to develop into a post-rebellion, post-hard times setting.<BR>
<BR>
I was just going to ask if it had been influenced by FS! Sounds interesting...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 19:17:49 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Oynprith<BR>
<BR>
At 19:08 -0500 5/11/99,  "Robert Eaglestone" <BR>
<eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com>  wrote:<BR>
>If it's Oynprith and you know it, clap your hands...<BR>
>If it's Oynprith and you know it, clap your hands...<BR>
>If it's Oynprith and you know it, then you're T-Geek and you show it;<BR>
>If it's Oynprith and you know it, clap your hands!<BR>
<BR>
ROTFLOL!<BR>
<BR>
And my head hurts. All I can say is I'm glad that I wasn't drinking <BR>
when I read that....<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 19:23:24 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vs: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
<BR>
At 21:16 -0500 5/11/99,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>And, alas, few people who have *only* seen the movie know what the real<BR>
>malfunction was. As was (not very well) explained in the movie version<BR>
>of 2010, the problem was that security concious idiots told HAL that<BR>
>under no circumstances could he reveal the *real* mission to the crew<BR>
>until they arrived at Jupiter. And at the same time they told him the<BR>
>mission *must* accomplish its goal.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC If you're looking at it from the perspective of the novel, it <BR>
doesn't even mention that they're going to Jupiter ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:42:45 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 7 Nov 1999 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 11/6/99 10:38:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, semo@pil.net <BR>
> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << You seem to have quite an axe to grind on this point. >><BR>
> <BR>
> I do. My undergrad degree was in American and European History, I wanted it <BR>
> in military history, but couldn't find a program. As an example, my Civil War <BR>
> specialist in my history department (Yale, Ph.D.) taught her lower division <BR>
> US history classes without mentioning the war at all, except in political <BR>
> terms. Who's Grant, Lee, Sherman, Jackson?<BR>
<BR>
Sorry to burst your bubble there, but the military history of the Civil<BR>
War is predominantly of interest to military historians. As iomportant as<BR>
the actions of Grant, Sherman, Lee, Jackson et. al. were, they were of<BR>
secondary importance to the overall picture.<BR>
<BR>
The _political_ history of the Civil War is _why_ we have a military<BR>
history of the Civil War and is of far more relevance, particularly in<BR>
these days of the resurgence of 'states rights'...<BR>
<BR>
Sherman, for example, is far better remembered for his 'march to the sea'<BR>
in social and political terms than in military ones. While his campaign<BR>
did hasten the wars end, to this day, over a hundred and thirty years<BR>
later, he is reviled in parts of this country as a genocidal monster,<BR>
hardly the picture we get in our history books as children. Whihc is more<BR>
important in it's impact on human society?<BR>
<BR>
The second problem is your assumption that assignments in academic<BR>
departments have any relationship to what the professors specialty or<BR>
training is...That professor probably had little choice over her subject<BR>
matter...<BR>
<BR>
Finally, aside from some constant whiners like George Will, who won't be<BR>
satisfied until college educations are limited to upper-class white males,<BR>
about upper-class white males like himself again, the 'PC' fad has been<BR>
waning on most campuses for some time.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I HATE the whole social history movement. While I think it's very important <BR>
> to study the "little man/woman" to get the whole picture of history, I reject <BR>
> the notion that one shouldn't study the movers and shakers (i.e., the rulers, <BR>
> leaders, etc.). This is just 1960s backlash against the "establishment". The <BR>
> problem with social history, is that until democracy, the little man/woman <BR>
> didn't DO a whole hell of a lot. It's more interesting to study the leaders.<BR>
<BR>
The problem with studying the 'movers and shakers' is that we tend to<BR>
mostly have records written either by them, or by people with axes to<BR>
grind against them, and either is unlikely to be very reflective of<BR>
reality. However, historical accounts of those unimportant little people<BR>
are more likely to be factual, precisely because they didn't count, and no<BR>
one risked prison or worse writing some version of the truth.<BR>
<BR>
From the impact on the lives on the little people we get a better idea of<BR>
what the M&S'es were _really_ doing...and arguably studying the history of<BR>
99.999% of humankind could be considered more important that studying that<BR>
0.001% who are listed as important in the records they wrote themselves...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav. I suspect that the study of history in the 3I will be considerably<BR>
different, due to institutions such as the AAB, and the generally high<BR>
tech level of the Imperium and it's predecessors, leading to much better<BR>
record preservation.<BR>
<BR>
For instance, imagine what the data warehouse of a megacorp like Sharushid<BR>
contains within it... the purchasing patterns and intimate detail on the<BR>
lives of trillions and trillions of customers reaching back millenia...<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav: Imagine studying the 3I by studying how the lives of groat farmers <BR>
> are effected by the civil wars, and NOT studying the barracks emperors.<BR>
<BR>
Seen from that perspective, the Civil War was some interesting news that<BR>
happened on the trivid, or to your neighbor Eneri down the road, whose<BR>
nephew was in the Navy and lost during a battle.<BR>
<BR>
Canonically, about _all_ the the Civil War affected was whose butt was in<BR>
the the Iridium Throne, and whose fleets were in battle. To the people<BR>
involved it was a Big Thing, but to the greater mass of the Imperium, it<BR>
wasn't. <BR>
<BR>
That it was predominantly political maneuvering is made clear by the fact<BR>
that the outlying polities, such as the Vargr, Solomani and Zhodani didn't<BR>
take advantage of the 'unrest' in the Imperium, because there really<BR>
wasn't all that much unrest...the Imperial bureaucracy continmued to<BR>
function just fine, as did the majority of the Navy...MOST fleets stayed<BR>
on station most of the time, loyal to the Emperor or Empress, whoever he<BR>
or she was that week.<BR>
<BR>
It did not have the wodespread shortages, deprivations and destruction<BR>
that accompanied the Rebellion. The Hard Times hit everyone, then.<BR>
<BR>
That so much print, argument and importance is attached to the Barracks<BR>
Emperors is a sign that the study in the 3I is skewed towards the M&S'es<BR>
almost exclusively, the Dead White Males of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 11:45:01 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: politics <BR>
<BR>
>From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
>Subject: politics & universities (was Wild Blue Claims)<BR>
...<BR>
>>No, that's impossible because of the free market economy and concommitant<BR>
>>environment of free speech in the 3I, so that ideology literally CAN'T<BR>
>>tamper with the truth.<BR>
...<BR>
>Since all true states are evolving towards the Feudal Technocracy though,<BR>
>I don't think we really have to worry about this...<BR>
<BR>
 Of course. Only feudal technocracy genuinely maximizes the potential<BR>
for individual human development. <BR>
<BR>
  Except maybe those pesky dissidents...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 14:50:57 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Interactive fiction<BR>
<BR>
At 09:17 PM 10/30/99 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>In mail Luther Martin writes:<BR>
><BR>
> > If anyone out there remembers the old days of "interactive fiction,"<BR>
> > (Adventure, Zork, etc), I have finished the logic for an IF walkthrough<BR>
> > of a Type S scout/courrier. If anyone has really good descriptions of<BR>
> > any of the rooms they would like included in this exercise, let me know.<BR>
> > You can now enter through the airlock, walk around the ship, and open<BR>
> > and close doors. Ideas for developing this into something more<BR>
> > interesting will also be appreciated.<BR>
><BR>
>I wonder if you could turn this interactive scout ship into a web page?<BR>
<BR>
It is not quite as neat as being able to drop notes in the pilots<BR>
workstation for other pilots to see, but look at<BR>
http://www.datatone.com/~robb/escape.html<BR>
This is Luther Martin's Escape program (~53K) running under<BR>
Matthew T. Russotto's ZPlet (~126K)<BR>
So if your browser can do java, please come by and check it out.<BR>
<BR>
I just provided the web space and told ZPlet to load Escape3.z5. I<BR>
am not to be held responsible for any time wasted searching for keys<BR>
to the ships locker or examining the pilots workstation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rob Brady 685B57            Computer Geek, 4 terms<BR>
Computer-4, Electronic-1, Streetwise-1<BR>
"Don't even ask about quirks!"     robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 14:58:36 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Evolution (was ...and the drifting generation ship)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:56 AM 11/7/99 -0600, Shimmergloom  wrote:<BR>
>So if I made this ship the size of a small moon I should have no problems.<BR>
<BR>
Just the size of the Galapagos Islands :)<BR>
<BR>
>Christopher Thrash wrote:<BR>
> > There is a specific subfield of evolutionary biology called /island<BR>
> > biogeography/. It derives from the study of natural populations on islands<BR>
> > (starting with Darwin) and has received a lot of attention from ecologists<BR>
> > in the last 20 years, as natural habitats on land become isolated by man<BR>
> > and more like islands themselves.<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tardy robber.. Order By Brat.. Tardy Bob ERR.. Retry bad Rob.. Retro by bard<BR>
Robert Brady                                        robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 12:05:18 -0800<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
<BR>
Pete wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:32:05 -0700, "Legate Legion"<BR>
> <legate@futureone.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >    OBTrav:  What would be the food & drink restrictions in the 3I?<BR>
><BR>
> Are K'kree kosher?   ;-)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I want ever one to know I did not ask this question........<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
This time.<BR>
No they are not.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
 Laredo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 15:13:03 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: politics <BR>
<BR>
At 11:45 AM 11/7/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
> >Subject: politics & universities (was Wild Blue Claims)<BR>
>...<BR>
> >>No, that's impossible because of the free market economy and concommitant<BR>
> >>environment of free speech in the 3I, so that ideology literally CAN'T<BR>
> >>tamper with the truth.<BR>
>...<BR>
> >Since all true states are evolving towards the Feudal Technocracy though,<BR>
> >I don't think we really have to worry about this...<BR>
><BR>
>  Of course. Only feudal technocracy genuinely maximizes the potential<BR>
>for individual human development.<BR>
><BR>
>   Except maybe those pesky dissidents...<BR>
<BR>
Ah Ha! But that's why we are developing truth machines, and a cadre of<BR>
excellent psychologists who understand that those who cannot put the<BR>
rights of others before themselves are suffering from intense egomania.<BR>
(Or was it eggo-mania?)<BR>
- --<BR>
There is no crime so great as the crime you commit against yourself --<BR>
not allowing yourself to serve others and find greatness in being the<BR>
servant of all  -- Lead Psychiatrist, Ernard Ustilon<BR>
Rob Brady                                     robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tardy robber.. Order By Brat.. Tardy Bob ERR.. Retry bad Rob.. Retro by bard<BR>
Robert Brady                                        robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 15:13:54 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Part of the problem with confirming kills in the Gulf War was that we<BR>
>never actually occupied much of the territory we were bombing. Positive<BR>
>confirmation of equipment kills like that is on-the-ground confirmation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
What I am citing were interviews with the various special forces recon teams<BR>
who were on the ground to sift through remains. If I recall correctly,<BR>
they're in that multipart documentary on the Gulf War that gets shown on PBS<BR>
from time to time. They also had some interesting stories concerning near<BR>
misses with Iraqi soldiers, what trouble they had to go through with the<BR>
bodies and vehicles of their enemies after they took them out, etc.<BR>
<BR>
>(as a scud launcher and an ordinary supply truck could look remarkably<BR>
>similar when blown to bits and viewed via aerial or sat recon)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Apparently, though, they did have people on the ground whose job it was to<BR>
confirm. Quite a brave -and also sneaky- breed of fellows.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 15:13:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Walter G. Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re Wild Blue Claims<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel wrote<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
<< ObTrav: Enli Iddukagen, dangerous travelling amatuer archaologist<BR>
 from JTAS, more than willing to fight for his shaky theories to the<BR>
 last drop of the PC's blood... >><BR>
<BR>
I always thought of him more as an academic fraud and conman, rather than a <BR>
politically correct American style "social historian".<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
I think I have the wrong name, I was trying for the pothunting<BR>
archaeologist and got the tabloid reporter instead. I'm supposed to<BR>
be rolling on a chance of losing Str, Dex and End, not Int and Edu...<BR>
not yet anyway.<BR>
<BR>
The archaeologist I was thinking of, he has definite scientific theories<BR>
("the Ancients were Human"), and adjusts the sloppiness of his<BR>
science as needed to make the recovered facts fit his theories.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 14:19:18 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Marc Miller's new website for Traveller<BR>
<BR>
On 11/07/99 at 09:53 AM,  Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> >>http://members.aol.com/Traveller<BR>
>><BR>
>> >The pages are very netscape unfriendly.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Very!<BR>
>><BR>
>> In Netscape 4.04 (and that's the latest version I can get on this<BR>
>> particular system), the entire left hand ?frame? is missing.  I<BR>
>> wondered what Swordy meant by voting until I tried using IE.<BR>
<BR>
>there were columns on that page?<BR>
<BR>
<grin>  Not if you are using Netscape. </grin><BR>
<BR>
Yes, there is a left column that contains a button bar, a comments<BR>
entry area for what you want in T5, and a questionaire asking which<BR>
of the Traveller versions (less GT) that you prefer.<BR>
<BR>
Last I looked Classic Traveller was leading in the voting and it<BR>
looked something like:<BR>
<BR>
CT  60<BR>
MT  15<BR>
TNE 10<BR>
T4   8<BR>
T5   0<BR>
<BR>
Marc may have done this on purpose, but I noticed that the T5 radio<BR>
button is linked to T4.  How did I find that out?  I voted for T5<BR>
and T4 went up 1 while T5 stayed 0.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 14:29:31 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Hydroponics/Acquculture (was Re: Food Sources)<BR>
<BR>
On 11/07/99 at 10:07 AM,  "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Guinea pigs are a food animal in South America (especially Peru). And<BR>
>> they've been proposed for space colnies.<BR>
<BR>
>Yes they are, but my family used to raise them for research and they<BR>
>are not very meaty. But they multiply quickly. Probably taste like<BR>
>chicken.<BR>
<BR>
I'm pretty sure aquaculture is your best bet for high density<BR>
*animal* protein:  Fish, shrimp, crayfish etc.  In fact, the algae<BR>
they eat is excellent feed stock for processing.<BR>
<BR>
In the Akus game, Doctor Mira (Suz Dollar) is going to setup a<BR>
hydroponics/acquculture system to suppliment life support.  She has<BR>
the advantage of carnotanks for bulk protein, so her set up is for<BR>
variety, flavor, and because sitting behind an artifical waterfall<BR>
in a grotto while in Jumpspace struck her fancy. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:31:19 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: re Wild Blue Claims<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/7/99 12:16:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
smithw@hartwick.edu writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  think I have the wrong name, I was trying for the pothunting<BR>
 archaeologist and got the tabloid reporter instead. I'm supposed to<BR>
 be rolling on a chance of losing Str, Dex and End, not Int and Edu...<BR>
 not yet anyway.<BR>
 <BR>
 The archaeologist I was thinking of, he has definite scientific theories<BR>
 ("the Ancients were Human"), and adjusts the sloppiness of his<BR>
 science as needed to make the recovered facts fit his theories.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
You're right; I just have a different interpretation of him...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 15:30:45 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Academic Adventure Seeds (was Re: Wild Blue Claims)<BR>
<BR>
On 11/07/99 at 12:42 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> << You seem to have quite an axe to grind on this point. >><BR>
 <BR>
>> I do.  My undergrad degree was in American and European History,<BR>
>> I wanted it in military history, but couldn't find a program.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, but that was my experience 30 years ago too.<BR>
<BR>
>Sorry to burst your bubble there, but the military history of the<BR>
>Civil War is predominantly of interest to military historians. As<BR>
>iomportant as the actions of Grant, Sherman, Lee, Jackson et. al.<BR>
>were, they were of secondary importance to the overall picture.<BR>
<BR>
Certainly, and I don't disagree that the study of political and<BR>
culture history is most important for the general student...and the<BR>
general public, *but* I was going to be a history major and could<BR>
not find *any* interest in military history at 3 separate<BR>
universities.  I was advised to try joining ROTC by the only person<BR>
in the history department that offered any positive advice at all.<BR>
<BR>
>The second problem is your assumption that assignments in academic<BR>
>departments have any relationship to what the professors specialty or<BR>
>training is...That professor probably had little choice over her<BR>
>subject matter...<BR>
<BR>
Only if she wasn't up the ladder in seniority.  Full professors<BR>
can strongly influence what they teach, at least for the occasional<BR>
course in their special interest area.  Graduate seminars...don't<BR>
you know.  <g> You can usually get into a grad seminar even as a<BR>
lowly undergraduate if you talk to the professor, express an<BR>
interest, and show some knowledge of the subject.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav, think about academic careers and academics as patrons...<BR>
<BR>
  The party is approached by a man/woman who wants to hire a<BR>
  ship/crew/bodyguards for an expedition to system X.<BR>
<BR>
  1.  The patron is a biologist that wants to study the life cycle<BR>
      of the greater spotted Rdo. The party are his support team, or<BR>
      maybe just hired hands.  The professor talks incessantly about<BR>
      the spotted rdo, but fails to tell you about the rest of the<BR>
      ecology on Macardal.<BR>
      <BR>
  2.  The patron is a grad student in sociology writing her<BR>
      dissertation on the changes in cultural patterns during large<BR>
      scale TL6 wars, and her committee has recommended some<BR>
      empirical research on the balkanized world of Bonzi.  You have<BR>
      to get her there and keep her (and yourselves alive) in the<BR>
      middle of a world war..ie England or Germany in 1944.<BR>
      <BR>
  3.  The patron is an astrophysicist who wants to test a theory and<BR>
      needs to get *very* close to a M9V. He insists that it must be<BR>
      in an uninhabited system, but doesn't say why. <BR>
      <BR>
  4.  The patron is an archaeologist who is sure he has found the<BR>
      location of an Ancient Library on a TL4 world from his study<BR>
      of old archive records, but needs to go there to confirm it<BR>
      before he can risk writing it up for publication.  He doesn't<BR>
      even *know* that the area where the library may be is<BR>
      dominated by a humophobic (it *should* be called homophobic,<BR>
      but that has taken on another meaning) Vargr culture.<BR>
      <BR>
  5.  The patron is an academic that tells the party that another<BR>
      academic has stolen a copy of her data and she wants them to<BR>
      get it back and prevent him from acting on it until she has a<BR>
      chance to publish.<BR>
      <BR>
  6.  The patron has a simple courier job of transporting some data,<BR>
      or a specimen, to a collaborating professor in another system,<BR>
      or perhaps transporting supplies to a research site.<BR>
      <BR>
  7.  The patron is a rich young student who wants to charter the<BR>
      party's ship (or hire them as crew for his yacht) for an<BR>
      "outing" by his fraternity to the subsector gravball<BR>
      championship game.<BR>
      <BR>
  8.  The patron is the Duke of Tolliver who wants his daughter<BR>
      delivered to the Hape Finishing School on Rondai.  He tells<BR>
      the party that Marie is "a little high spirited" and may not<BR>
      really want to go, but that "it is *his* wish" and you won't<BR>
      get paid unless you deliver her to Madam Pallet the head<BR>
      mistress at Hape.  And heaven help you, if you lose Marie!<BR>
<BR>
>For instance, imagine what the data warehouse of a megacorp like<BR>
>Sharushid contains within it... the purchasing patterns and intimate<BR>
>detail on the lives of trillions and trillions of customers reaching<BR>
>back millenia...<BR>
<BR>
...and what are the odds that Sharushid would let any outsiders have<BR>
access to *that* data?  Authorized access anyway...<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1323<BR>
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